the people, the mobilisation of allies in the international field. Your aim should be to destroy the legality of the Government and to institute that of the people. There must be parallel authority in the administration of justice, in administration and in supplies.
The political organisation must be in complete control of the people and their activity. Your soldiers must live amongst the people like fish in water.
The aim should be that our forces should develop and grow and those of the enemy should disintegrate.
To start a revolution is easy but to continue and maintain it is most difficult. Duty of a commander is to make a thorough analysis of the situation before a start is made.
19. CONVERSATION WITH AHMED KATHRADA ABOUT HIS TRIP TO LONDON IN 1962
MANDELA: Yes, well actually, the British gave me a hard time at the airport. Not rude; you see they are very subtle.
KATHRADA: Ja.
MANDELA:…I had to produce my passport, but in the first place, you see, Oliver [Tambo] says, ‘You go to that table; I’ll go to that other one.’ And we parted, and so I gave this chap my passport, and he looked at it and greeted me very politely, and he says, ‘What are you coming to England for?’ So I say, ‘I came to the library, to the museum, because I am writing a book.’ And he says, ‘What book is this?’ So I say, ‘Well, the subject is the evolution of political thought in Africa’ and he says, ‘Oh, sir, wonderful – it’s a wonderful title, and how long do you want?’ I say, ‘I just want two weeks.’ He says, ‘No, don’t ask for two weeks; ask for a month.’ And I thought…I’m going to have a wonderful time, and I say, ‘No, I’ll get a month,’ and he said, ‘Have you got a return ticket…’
KATHRADA: Ah.
MANDELA: ‘…with you?’…I was shaken by this. I say, ‘No, but I’ve got some money.’ In fact I think I’ve got about 20 rands or something. [ laughs ] And I said, ‘I’ve got some money’ and I found my hand going to the pocket, but he says, ‘No, no, no, no. Don’t worry.’ Because…he knew…the fact that I had the money and he didn’t want to do that. They are very subtle.
KATHRADA: Ja.
MANDELA: ‘No, no, no, no, don’t do that.’ And then, as he was talking to me, the chap in that counter signalled to him, says [ gestures ]…to Oliver, you see? In other words, he was saying that ‘This is a chap in a…’, what-you-call, ‘in the black list.’
KATHRADA: Aha.
MANDELA: And he was tipping [off] this chap, and he was asking very subtle questions, but coming up, you know, with something devastating, you know?
KATHRADA: Ah.
MANDELA: And eventually [he] says, ‘I’m going to give you Form so-and-so’, you know, ‘which will enable you to stay for a month,’ and then wished me well. In the meantime they were plotting…They discovered that, no, we are freedom fighters. But I had quite a lovely time because I saw British politicians, and they welcomed me very well. I saw this chap Denis Healey, of the Labour Party, 8 and I saw…the chap Hugh Gaitskell 9 …Now they wanted me to meet [Prime Minister] Macmillan but…we were foolish; you see, our programme was too tight, seeing people like David Astor, Anthony… 10
KATHRADA: Sampson. 11
MANDELA: Sampson and others…
KATHRADA: You didn’t stay with Astor did you?
MANDELA: No, no, no, no. I stayed with Oliver, yes.
KATHRADA: Aha.
MANDELA:…It was, of course, exciting to be in England and the capital of [the] once…powerful British Empire. I enjoyed that, and then in going, you know, to their bookshops and so on and getting literature on guerrilla warfare.
20. CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT GUERRILLA WARFARE
MANDELA: The revolution in China was a masterpiece, a real masterpiece. If you read how they fought that revolution, you believe in the impossible. It’s just miraculous. Who is the American man who wrote the book Red Star Over China ?
STENGEL: Yes.
MANDELA: What was his name? Famous
The political organisation must be in complete control of the people and their activity. Your soldiers must live amongst the people like fish in water.
The aim should be that our forces should develop and grow and those of the enemy should disintegrate.
To start a revolution is easy but to continue and maintain it is most difficult. Duty of a commander is to make a thorough analysis of the situation before a start is made.
19. CONVERSATION WITH AHMED KATHRADA ABOUT HIS TRIP TO LONDON IN 1962
MANDELA: Yes, well actually, the British gave me a hard time at the airport. Not rude; you see they are very subtle.
KATHRADA: Ja.
MANDELA:…I had to produce my passport, but in the first place, you see, Oliver [Tambo] says, ‘You go to that table; I’ll go to that other one.’ And we parted, and so I gave this chap my passport, and he looked at it and greeted me very politely, and he says, ‘What are you coming to England for?’ So I say, ‘I came to the library, to the museum, because I am writing a book.’ And he says, ‘What book is this?’ So I say, ‘Well, the subject is the evolution of political thought in Africa’ and he says, ‘Oh, sir, wonderful – it’s a wonderful title, and how long do you want?’ I say, ‘I just want two weeks.’ He says, ‘No, don’t ask for two weeks; ask for a month.’ And I thought…I’m going to have a wonderful time, and I say, ‘No, I’ll get a month,’ and he said, ‘Have you got a return ticket…’
KATHRADA: Ah.
MANDELA: ‘…with you?’…I was shaken by this. I say, ‘No, but I’ve got some money.’ In fact I think I’ve got about 20 rands or something. [ laughs ] And I said, ‘I’ve got some money’ and I found my hand going to the pocket, but he says, ‘No, no, no, no. Don’t worry.’ Because…he knew…the fact that I had the money and he didn’t want to do that. They are very subtle.
KATHRADA: Ja.
MANDELA: ‘No, no, no, no, don’t do that.’ And then, as he was talking to me, the chap in that counter signalled to him, says [ gestures ]…to Oliver, you see? In other words, he was saying that ‘This is a chap in a…’, what-you-call, ‘in the black list.’
KATHRADA: Aha.
MANDELA: And he was tipping [off] this chap, and he was asking very subtle questions, but coming up, you know, with something devastating, you know?
KATHRADA: Ah.
MANDELA: And eventually [he] says, ‘I’m going to give you Form so-and-so’, you know, ‘which will enable you to stay for a month,’ and then wished me well. In the meantime they were plotting…They discovered that, no, we are freedom fighters. But I had quite a lovely time because I saw British politicians, and they welcomed me very well. I saw this chap Denis Healey, of the Labour Party, 8 and I saw…the chap Hugh Gaitskell 9 …Now they wanted me to meet [Prime Minister] Macmillan but…we were foolish; you see, our programme was too tight, seeing people like David Astor, Anthony… 10
KATHRADA: Sampson. 11
MANDELA: Sampson and others…
KATHRADA: You didn’t stay with Astor did you?
MANDELA: No, no, no, no. I stayed with Oliver, yes.
KATHRADA: Aha.
MANDELA:…It was, of course, exciting to be in England and the capital of [the] once…powerful British Empire. I enjoyed that, and then in going, you know, to their bookshops and so on and getting literature on guerrilla warfare.
20. CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT GUERRILLA WARFARE
MANDELA: The revolution in China was a masterpiece, a real masterpiece. If you read how they fought that revolution, you believe in the impossible. It’s just miraculous. Who is the American man who wrote the book Red Star Over China ?
STENGEL: Yes.
MANDELA: What was his name? Famous
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