which has beneath it no corresponding version into which it may suddenly sink and decline.
69
70–1. The example of the Roman constitution
However, I’m afraid that you, Laelius, and you, my kind and learned friends, may get the impression that in talking like this I am setting myself up as a preacher or a teacher instead of collaborating with you in a joint inquiry. So I shall move on to matters which are familiar to everyone, and which indeed we have long been working towards. I hold, maintain, and declare that no form of government is comparable in its structure, its assignment of functions, or its discipline, to the one which our fathers received from their forebears and have handed down to us. So, if you approve (because you wanted me to talk on a subject which you yourselves knew well), I shall describe its nature and at the same time demonstrate its superiority. Then, after setting up our constitution as a model, I shall use it as a point of reference, as best I can, in all I have to say about the best possible state. If I can keep this aim in view and bring it to a conclusion, I shall have amply fulfilled, I think, the task which Laelius assigned me.
70
LAELIUS : Well it’s certainly your task, Scipio, and yours alone. 71 For who is better placed than you to talk about our forefathers’ institutions, since your forefathers were themselves especially distinguished? Or about the best possible state? If we were to have such a state (which we don’t have even now), who could play a more active role than you? Or who could better formulate our future policies? For by repelling the two dangers * that threatened our city you yourself * have made provision for all the years that lie ahead.
71
FRAGMENTS OF BOOK I
1. [Loeb, 34] So do, please, bring your talk down from the sky to these more immediate problems (Nonius 1. 121 and 2. 446).
2. [Loeb, frag. 2] Therefore, since our fatherland brings more blessings, and is a more long-standing parent than the one whobegot us, it must surely claim a greater debt of gratitude than a father (Nonius 3. 688).
[This seems to belong to the prologue
.]
3. [Loeb, frag. 3] Nor would Carthage have enjoyed such prosperity for some six hundred years without sound policies and a sound system of training (Nonius 3. 845).
BOOK 2
I-II. The foundation of Rome
As everyone was consumed with eagerness to hear what he had to say, Scipio began as follows:
1
My first point is taken from old Cato. As you know, I was especially fond of him and admired him greatly. On the recommendation of my two fathers * and, even more so, because of my own interest, I devoted myself to him, heart and soul, from my early days. I could never hear enough of his talk—so rich was the man’s political experience, which he had acquired during his long and distinguished career in peace and war. Equally impressive were his temperate way of speaking, his combination of seriousness and humour, his tremendous zest for obtaining and providing information, and the close correspondence between his preaching and his practice.
Cato used to say that our constitution was superior to others, because in their case there had usually been one individual who had equipped his state with laws and institutions, for example, Minos of Crete, Lycurgus of Sparta, and the men who had brought about a succession of changes at Athens (Theseus, Draco, Solon, Cleisthenes, and many others) until finally, when it lay fainting and prostrate, it was revived by that learned man, Demetrius of Phalerum. Our own constitution, on the other hand, had been established not by one man’s ability but by that of many, not in the course of one man’s life but over several ages and generations. He used to say that no genius of such magnitude * had ever existed that he could be sure of overlooking nothing; and that no collection of able people at a single point of time could have sufficient foresight to take account of everything; there had to be practical
69
70–1. The example of the Roman constitution
However, I’m afraid that you, Laelius, and you, my kind and learned friends, may get the impression that in talking like this I am setting myself up as a preacher or a teacher instead of collaborating with you in a joint inquiry. So I shall move on to matters which are familiar to everyone, and which indeed we have long been working towards. I hold, maintain, and declare that no form of government is comparable in its structure, its assignment of functions, or its discipline, to the one which our fathers received from their forebears and have handed down to us. So, if you approve (because you wanted me to talk on a subject which you yourselves knew well), I shall describe its nature and at the same time demonstrate its superiority. Then, after setting up our constitution as a model, I shall use it as a point of reference, as best I can, in all I have to say about the best possible state. If I can keep this aim in view and bring it to a conclusion, I shall have amply fulfilled, I think, the task which Laelius assigned me.
70
LAELIUS : Well it’s certainly your task, Scipio, and yours alone. 71 For who is better placed than you to talk about our forefathers’ institutions, since your forefathers were themselves especially distinguished? Or about the best possible state? If we were to have such a state (which we don’t have even now), who could play a more active role than you? Or who could better formulate our future policies? For by repelling the two dangers * that threatened our city you yourself * have made provision for all the years that lie ahead.
71
FRAGMENTS OF BOOK I
1. [Loeb, 34] So do, please, bring your talk down from the sky to these more immediate problems (Nonius 1. 121 and 2. 446).
2. [Loeb, frag. 2] Therefore, since our fatherland brings more blessings, and is a more long-standing parent than the one whobegot us, it must surely claim a greater debt of gratitude than a father (Nonius 3. 688).
[This seems to belong to the prologue
.]
3. [Loeb, frag. 3] Nor would Carthage have enjoyed such prosperity for some six hundred years without sound policies and a sound system of training (Nonius 3. 845).
BOOK 2
I-II. The foundation of Rome
As everyone was consumed with eagerness to hear what he had to say, Scipio began as follows:
1
My first point is taken from old Cato. As you know, I was especially fond of him and admired him greatly. On the recommendation of my two fathers * and, even more so, because of my own interest, I devoted myself to him, heart and soul, from my early days. I could never hear enough of his talk—so rich was the man’s political experience, which he had acquired during his long and distinguished career in peace and war. Equally impressive were his temperate way of speaking, his combination of seriousness and humour, his tremendous zest for obtaining and providing information, and the close correspondence between his preaching and his practice.
Cato used to say that our constitution was superior to others, because in their case there had usually been one individual who had equipped his state with laws and institutions, for example, Minos of Crete, Lycurgus of Sparta, and the men who had brought about a succession of changes at Athens (Theseus, Draco, Solon, Cleisthenes, and many others) until finally, when it lay fainting and prostrate, it was revived by that learned man, Demetrius of Phalerum. Our own constitution, on the other hand, had been established not by one man’s ability but by that of many, not in the course of one man’s life but over several ages and generations. He used to say that no genius of such magnitude * had ever existed that he could be sure of overlooking nothing; and that no collection of able people at a single point of time could have sufficient foresight to take account of everything; there had to be practical
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