were asked to leave the room?
A. I was asked to leave the room.
Q. And go where?
A. Out into the lobby.
Q. For what purpose?
A. Until Rick Winiker could be contacted.
Q. Who is Mr. Winiker?
A. Mr. Winiker is my attorney.
Q. And did Mr. Winiker come to the office and meet with you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And after meeting with you, did you come back in and continue to meet with the government?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And at that point, what were you informed?
A. I was informed that there would be a different plea agreement, that no substantial assistance would be offered, and I had the option to leave and cooperate no further.
Q. And what decision did you make at that time?
A. I made a decision to stay and cooperate.
Q. Why was your plea agreement no good at that point?
A. Because I had not adhered to the terms of that plea agreement.
Q. And specifically what term had you not adhered to?
A. The part about cooperating and providing truthful information.
Q. Did you, in fact, enter a new plea agreement with the government?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, the first plea agreement exposed you to a maximum term of imprisonment of what?
A. Five years.
Q. Did you get a five-year limitation in your second plea agreement?
A. No, I did not.
Q. What was the limitation in your second plea agreement?
A. The second plea agreement is 20 years.
Q. I’m going to show you Government Exhibit 45Q and ask you if you recognize that.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And what is that?
A. That is the bill of information for the new plea agreement.
Q. And what is the charge in that bill of information?
A. The charge is conspiracy to commit mail fraud.
Q. What’s the date of that document?
A. The date is February 10th, 2010.
Q. Six days after your meeting? Your first meeting.
A. Yes.
Q. Let me show you Government Exhibit 45R. Do you recognize that document?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is it?
A. That is the new plea agreement.
Q. And did you sign it?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what day was it entered?
A. It was entered on February the 10th, 2010.
Q. According to this plea agreement, what charge are you agreeing to plead guilty to?
A. I am agreeing to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit mail fraud.
Q. And that’s the Count One of the new bill of information?
A. Yes.
Q. And under this plea agreement, what is the maximum term of imprisonment to which you are exposed?
A. Twenty years.
Q. Four times the prior plea agreement?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any promises from the government that you’re going to get any benefit from testifying today?
A. No promises whatsoever.
Q. Turning to page 6 of the plea agreement, does it require you to provide assistance to the government?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And, specifically, what does paragraph 25(a) require you to do?
A. Provide truthful information.
Q. During the course of the last three and a half years, was the United States the only person or the only entity to which you provided untruthful information about your conduct?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Were you ever deposed in any civil proceedings?
A. Yes. Yes. I was untruthful at those as well.
Q. And specifically, were you deposed by Frank Jackson?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Who is Frank Jackson?
A. Frank Jackson is an attorney in Hendersonville.
Q. And who was Mr. Jackson representing?
A. He was representing some of the investors.
Q. And they had brought a lawsuit?
A. They had brought a lawsuit.
Q. And what’s a deposition?
A. A deposition is giving sworn statements under oath.
Q. And did you give truthful statements in your deposition?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you repeat the same false information that you told the government?
A. Yes, I had
OUTFLANKED
In the testimony above, we find the reason for Alex’s sudden honesty course change , occurring two weeks prior to this testimony that we addressed in the previous chapter. Alex did not state that he had experienced a realization that he should have been truthful all along. On the contrary, he was
A. I was asked to leave the room.
Q. And go where?
A. Out into the lobby.
Q. For what purpose?
A. Until Rick Winiker could be contacted.
Q. Who is Mr. Winiker?
A. Mr. Winiker is my attorney.
Q. And did Mr. Winiker come to the office and meet with you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And after meeting with you, did you come back in and continue to meet with the government?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And at that point, what were you informed?
A. I was informed that there would be a different plea agreement, that no substantial assistance would be offered, and I had the option to leave and cooperate no further.
Q. And what decision did you make at that time?
A. I made a decision to stay and cooperate.
Q. Why was your plea agreement no good at that point?
A. Because I had not adhered to the terms of that plea agreement.
Q. And specifically what term had you not adhered to?
A. The part about cooperating and providing truthful information.
Q. Did you, in fact, enter a new plea agreement with the government?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, the first plea agreement exposed you to a maximum term of imprisonment of what?
A. Five years.
Q. Did you get a five-year limitation in your second plea agreement?
A. No, I did not.
Q. What was the limitation in your second plea agreement?
A. The second plea agreement is 20 years.
Q. I’m going to show you Government Exhibit 45Q and ask you if you recognize that.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And what is that?
A. That is the bill of information for the new plea agreement.
Q. And what is the charge in that bill of information?
A. The charge is conspiracy to commit mail fraud.
Q. What’s the date of that document?
A. The date is February 10th, 2010.
Q. Six days after your meeting? Your first meeting.
A. Yes.
Q. Let me show you Government Exhibit 45R. Do you recognize that document?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is it?
A. That is the new plea agreement.
Q. And did you sign it?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what day was it entered?
A. It was entered on February the 10th, 2010.
Q. According to this plea agreement, what charge are you agreeing to plead guilty to?
A. I am agreeing to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit mail fraud.
Q. And that’s the Count One of the new bill of information?
A. Yes.
Q. And under this plea agreement, what is the maximum term of imprisonment to which you are exposed?
A. Twenty years.
Q. Four times the prior plea agreement?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any promises from the government that you’re going to get any benefit from testifying today?
A. No promises whatsoever.
Q. Turning to page 6 of the plea agreement, does it require you to provide assistance to the government?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And, specifically, what does paragraph 25(a) require you to do?
A. Provide truthful information.
Q. During the course of the last three and a half years, was the United States the only person or the only entity to which you provided untruthful information about your conduct?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Were you ever deposed in any civil proceedings?
A. Yes. Yes. I was untruthful at those as well.
Q. And specifically, were you deposed by Frank Jackson?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Who is Frank Jackson?
A. Frank Jackson is an attorney in Hendersonville.
Q. And who was Mr. Jackson representing?
A. He was representing some of the investors.
Q. And they had brought a lawsuit?
A. They had brought a lawsuit.
Q. And what’s a deposition?
A. A deposition is giving sworn statements under oath.
Q. And did you give truthful statements in your deposition?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you repeat the same false information that you told the government?
A. Yes, I had
OUTFLANKED
In the testimony above, we find the reason for Alex’s sudden honesty course change , occurring two weeks prior to this testimony that we addressed in the previous chapter. Alex did not state that he had experienced a realization that he should have been truthful all along. On the contrary, he was
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